We Love Ugly Data! The Deep Analysis Podcast

We Love Ugly Data! The Deep Analysis Podcast - Episode 3 - May 2023

May 20, 2023 Alan Pelz-Sharpe Season 2 Episode 3
We Love Ugly Data! The Deep Analysis Podcast
We Love Ugly Data! The Deep Analysis Podcast - Episode 3 - May 2023
Show Notes Transcript

Episode 3 is here! Matt and Alan chat about Data Fabrics, AI desktop assistants, recent conferences, Ice-T, and all in just 30 minutes...

Topic 1: Where in the world has Alan been?

- Napoli win's first Scudetto since 1990 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65488842
- AIIM Conference https://www.aiimconference.com/event/fdbca9bf-a503-49db-aaa2-c3aa0bb23030/summary
- Reworked Connect Conference https://www.reworked.co/connect/

Topic 2: Here come the gen AI helpers! How do you cope?

- Generative AI on Your Desktop: Uninvited Guest, Welcome Coworker, or Competitor? - https://www.deep-analysis.net/generative-ai-on-your-desktop/
- Google Duet AI for Workspace https://workspace.google.com/blog/product-announcements/duet-ai
- Microsoft 365 CoPilot https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/03/16/introducing-microsoft-365-copilot-your-copilot-for-work/
- Salesforce Einstein for GPT https://www.salesforce.com/uk/news/press-releases/2023/03/07/einstein-generative-ai/

Topic 3: Data Fabrics & Work Intelligence. A solution?

- Appian Data Fabric intro video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxxf5wk8Z_4
- Work Intelligence Introduction https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-improving-processes/
- Work Intelligence Market Analysis https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-market-analysis-2023-2028/

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Podcast Episode 3 (2023-05-18 15:01 GMT+1) - Transcript


Alan Pelz-Sharpe, Matt Mullen, Matt Mullen's Presentation


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Matt Mullen: Who is this all new features on this. They also added some stuff. since I last looked so, So just a reminder of what I tend to do. Now, when I do this, is that we've got the, the headline topic,…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: What I Alright to do.

Matt Mullen: we're then going to the other slides.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Now, when we're doing this, you don't do

Matt Mullen: Exactly exactly why I've learned from doing too which is double what you've done. Is, Is I flick back to the No I've got my stock watch here. You see Well I get to about 30 seconds left at the topic. I click back to the topic page again so that you know, Either I'm going to turn the topic on. You're going to turn the topic on or one of us is going to have to interrupt the other, or we're going to run out of time. All good. So I'm going to start my stopwatch and…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yep.

Matt Mullen: then we'll go for a tape.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  Okay.

Matt Mullen:  So, thank you for joining us again. If it's for our third of our, our new refreshed or new formatted podcasts for those of you. So you've been before you don't need to have this introduction but those are you haven't I'm going to do it anyway. Three topics, 30 minutes to keep us spinning through some of the stuff. That's top of mind. Right now, I'm joined again with with Alan. And so our first topic as Alan's back again for his second, visit on the podcast is We're in a world has Alan been. I know, Alan you've been in part in Naples to celebrate their first gedetto. I think since 1990

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: You know, we missed it in the sense that it's supposed to win on the Sunday and they didn't and so the whole place was decked out. And and then they closed the championship a couple of days after we left Naples so we missed it all.

Matt Mullen: Oh, I'll see you missed out on all of the fun and…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: We missed all crazy list all the creditors…

Matt Mullen: the games and the players.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: but it was it was amazing busy. Yeah, because I was there in Italy for family wedding and my sister-in-law's birthday, my wife's Italian and But that was sort of snug in between work travel. So it sort of worked out pretty well. I started

Matt Mullen: So you don't get to be an analyst to have a full holiday. You've got to go. Well, I've got to fit this in between visits the conferences.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yes, it was a bit like actually actually was a lot like that because the first week I was in New Orleans for aim which is really good actually and I spoke a bunch of times there. I'm on the board of Aim so there was board meetings about those busy. It was busy and and then as we've got here at that photographs does not do justice to one of the most amazing head offices of being papyrus software in Vienna whereas sort of giving a keynote and…

Matt Mullen: Awesome.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: then a little workshop in the afternoon and and From there following day, actually, I flew from Vienna to Austin to speak at Reworked a couple of times there before coming home. So as soon as three and a half weeks, I think just little over three weeks. Anyway, on the road papyrus, though was A bit of a revelation if I'm being honest. And it ends that. And it's really hard to say this because it just we

Matt Mullen: Going to give a little bit background in papyrus. The people who don't know them because they're

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yeah that's a good point actually because they are a very well-known company but more so in Europe, if you're in insurance, for example in Denmark you'd know papyrus software because just about everybody is it and…

Matt Mullen:  Right.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: the bean around for a belief 35 years and believe I might have got this wrong but I'm pretty sure this is a company that's never really had outside funding sort of family. Very You know Austrian German very solid profitable. Great company. I mean they are

Matt Mullen: Well actually no last time, Dan and I were talking a little bit about differences between US and European companies and I guess papyrus will be a good example of that middle stand,…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Perfect example.

Matt Mullen: sort of Central European self-funded. I probably still owned by the Founders kind of 20 year old software company steady growth around them.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  Max and Annemarie. So they're the owners and and it was just great because it was a they're sort of annual customer event and I love doing customer events. I really do because well you just get to talk to so many people and you just got sore finger on the pulse, right? And

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: It was just amazing because we were talking. I mean obviously things like GPT came up and…

Matt Mullen: Of course,…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: and block and…

Matt Mullen: it's the law.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: actually to be fair papyrus, one of the few got a blockchain product related to documents and world on them. So, we were talking about all the sort of modern stuff but, you know, you looking at these case studies and you're talking to these people and it's just that slap in the face, when you think. Yeah, it's really complex, isn't it? You know, and the one I think I reference the most was what was really was and perfect contrast by the way, to the rework conference. Well, very simple request to just automate something for the customer,…


Matt Mullen: Mm-hmm.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: right? Because this spends or…

Matt Mullen: Yeah.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: whatever they are, right? Whoever's taking these cool spends in order and now inordinate amount of time answering these queers like, Come on. Can't we just automate this and…

Matt Mullen:  Yeah.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: all request very logical. It's great business case.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  But, you know, to answer those questions for a bit of the answers here, a bit of the answers there. But you got all these different systems. You've got integration points, you've got workflows, you've got business analysis, you can processing up. And it was just great to get into the weeds on some of those things. And then to contrast that as I say, I left, It's a long day. That was Tuesday. Left Vienna at 5 am. Went to Frankfurt and to Austin. I'll have so jet like and then to be it reworked and the AIM conference that the previous week, where, you know, there's a lot of vendors. They're touting their wares and and good for them, right? Good stuff.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: But in the middle there you've got the papyrus event right where it's just suddenly that this is how hard this stuff actually is to do. And so it was just it was really good.

Matt Mullen: Yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Aim was excellent. It really was. We had a closing keynote which apparently was devices. On sort of GPT and…

Matt Mullen:  Yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: because, you know, AIM right, the Association of Intelligent Information Management. So intelligent couldn't get past. The AI discussion. It was going on everywhere, but it was the same. So, It's like Yeah we're all interested. And actually this is a very smart audience. So they actually know what the talking about and I know what this stuff is and I know what it can do. And here's the thing man reworked you could see it actually impacting the workplace, right? That generating marketing content,…

Matt Mullen: Yes. Well,…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: I got

Matt Mullen: in one case, you read what you said, you're talking to someone who recently had been downsized and, which they believed, as a direct result of the implications of using AI.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: You know, I was really awkward. He sat next to me at lunch and…

Matt Mullen:  Well, yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: he just, yeah. And him and his entire team have been laid off. We won't say from where It's an online recruitment firm anyway.

Matt Mullen:  Uh-huh.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Right. And yeah, because his team used to monitor and rewrite and make sure job descriptions were legally compliant and did the job description. Whatever they did they did, right. And they made them, right? And the company said, we can get GPT to do that now. So human is not got chopped.

Matt Mullen: Yeah.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Now, we have to factor in here, disgruntled employee. which,

Matt Mullen:  Of course, I'm with every right to be disgruntled. Let's be, let's be honest.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Every right to be disgruntled. So, you know, after I have to take this with a pinter shot, salt just to be realistic. But what he was actually saying to me, was his biggest concern was what, you know, two things. One, the job descriptions are now just generic. Well, I, you know, is that a problem? I don't know. Maybe generic job description is just fine, but his bigger problem was a lot of what they did was ensure job descriptions were complying. It's regulations and…

Matt Mullen: Yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: laws and he said and most job descriptions aren't. It's not intentional. but people just don't realize, you can't say that, or you must do this or even and apparently GPT doesn't know those

Matt Mullen: Well that's the interesting nexus point probably between aim which is probably I would guess very strong on governance and process reworked…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  very,

Matt Mullen: which is much more focused around. Work and the future of work. And the two necklaces point is understanding how we can do things better, but still me are compliance. Our regulatory requirements, our legal requirements. In all the places that we do business, that's very interesting contrast between two, those two events I would imagine

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Totally and I mean it's just sort of scheduling magic or what coincidence or whatever but you're absolutely right. The aim conference I mean can't get through a conversation about the word governance being used…

Matt Mullen:  Of course. Yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: because that's what it is, right? Worked. Somebody used the term fluffy, which I think is a little dismissive, but they're focused on the experience, right? And not, not how you get to that point, right? It's more, you know, we need to improve the employee experience, we need to include the custom experience, the citizens,…


Matt Mullen:  Yes.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: all good stuff, all good stuff. But those two worlds historically, haven't really talked to one another.

Matt Mullen:  Like I said, another big contrast is that one event really worked? You can imagine iced tea being there as a presenter. I don't necessarily manage that think he would be probably be as was to the fitting as well at aim.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  Ultimately, it wasn't.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  No, I didn't actually get to meet him and I gather, he's got it, but Can you?

Matt Mullen: Oh well, there you go. Well, maybe next year and I think actually some of the stuff that you're talking about particularly around. the demands of, you know, a governance around and then AI coming to the to the desktop and certainly while you were away, it's been a big theme for this year is

Matt Mullen:  Generative AI particularly in our world, in the world of condom assistance and assistance is kind of everywhere. I'm just ticking an example. I'm looking at sort of what's been happening in. What's been coming through my desktop in the, in the period, the last of month or so we had back in March, Microsoft launching copilot. So they're collection and ever expanding collection of AI derived helpers within The 3605 Family, although because it's not limited to that because it's rolling out through Dynamics, and the artist formerly known as SharePoint as well, at the same time. And then more recently, they started to roll that out to some early customers. So it's kind of a paid experiment. Probably, what was more interesting and we've covered some more of this on our and this notes and other things is around, their work, trending index. Just very interesting active funeral stuff around

Matt Mullen:  What they believe from their data collection employees are thinking and feeling about AI, what business is a feeling about a and their impacting work, not just generally AI. But actually, how's it affecting the way in which you work? And the way, which you're planning work, and then we had, I think this was in this place is 24 hours. For different GPT announcements from, from Salesforce around various parts of their clouds. They, they want to coincide with their, with their New York, kind of world tour stuff. So they like to have a lot of announcements related to that but it was basically four in this place of the day where we covered a little bit last time you and I spoke a month or so ago. About how long do these vendors are starting with foundation models, and saying, Right? We're going to plug all the foundation models in, but the next step obviously is to allow you to to bring your own model. So your own sort of custom large language models that are coming along and then probably the people who've been

Matt Mullen:  bundling AI functionality into their suite for the longest time, I was on a

Matt Mullen:  Summit called they had last night with with Google where they were saying, actually, we started to put in bits of AI into the, what the area known as Workspace back into the 2015, when you started to have suggested replies and that kind of stuff and had our a whole map of all the various functions that they've had, they did a bigger set of announcements around a Google i/o this year included, including duet AI, which is very much that kind of sitting next to you all knowing employee colleague, helper, who can sit next to you and a prompt you with, maybe what you want to write? Maybe write some stuff for you. Maybe this suggest involving some people in the organization. It's a very much a helpful co-worker and a lot of this prompted, You know, I just sit down and put something together and, you know,

Matt Mullen:  Let's prompt us. That's problems a little bit towards our own work. So actually today, which is today not probably when you're watching this but it'll be available for you to download and for free from the website for people who are fill in their little registration form and tell us who they are. And what they're looking at is is our kind of primer, It's not design, really to be a. Here's everything you need to know, it's meant to be. This is probably what you need to know. Now, most of these tools are not in GA, They're probably not going to be in GE this year. And when they go to GA, they're probably going to go to selected customers first. And certainly, in the case of Microsoft, the people who spend the most on 360 licenses, I like you to be those people who get it first. So it's more thinking a little bit about. What are some of the themes. Why are all these things coming along? Now, what are they going to give you, How can you stop to think about building this in into those kind of ideas?

Matt Mullen: Thinking less magpie, like which is what shiny and thinking more, what's useful right now and focusing that not just on leaders. So people running businesses, people who have got, you know, lines of business but also towards the employees in the workforce, Thinking about when these things come along, how do you embrace them? How are they things? You should be working with? Are they Welcome coworkers. Are they competing for your desks competing for your desk completely for your salary? Are they really invited guests in your, in your workspace? You can kind of human.


Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yeah.

Matt Mullen: It's a little bit different, you've not been sitting through all the briefings I've been sitting on. So that's probably a gives you a different perspective. Let's say to me and I wonder what you've been there. What you've been viewing this stuff.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: You know it's a good report and and you're right and what we have been doing, what I have been doing is, you know, playing with Dqt sensor release, right. And You…

Matt Mullen: Absolutely.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: and it don't get me wrong. It's very, very impressive and you they're obviously is a business case and we just talked about people getting laid off, right? So there are obviously is a business case are and my challenge at this point is For this as an added feature. Well yeah you know I mean if you've got if your company's running on Microsoft or Google what you're gonna have it, I get that Where I'm scratching my head is. but if you start charging extra for it, Is anybody gonna pay for it? It's cool. It's clever. But I'm just not, I'm a loss as to how they're going to generate enough money. To cover the costs because it's a lot.

Matt Mullen: Well.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: I mean these aren't cheap tools.

Matt Mullen: Well, no, I think one of the things that we speculate without giving away all of the contents of of the paper. It's a speculate why now, and why in this volume, and I think we shouldn't separate out, the sudden, glutton GPT tools that are going to be available to you. They're being heavily trailed right now and the fact that at the same time, organizations are looking to rationalize, potentially reduce the number of large, IT partners and software providers that they have. So the trying to look and…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yeah.

Matt Mullen: say we we can't see afford to keep all the tools we've got. So we're going to start to rationalize things a little bit more. What have we got? The we using? And that's only, this is something that came up in our work Intelligence work, early in this year, is that actually one of the unintended initial consequences is having an idea? What are the tools inside your organizations that you use. So you've got a little bit of a mini arms race. I think here one, it's cool and is exciting. And it's good stuff at demos.

Matt Mullen:  Well, is really good to have in your keynote. I mean, this is stuff that's getting onto, you know, the sort of the ten o'clock news on the BBC here. So it's got cut through the consumers and people at home. It demonstrates that the thing you've invested on is still cutting edge. so even though most of what you're using in 365 or in workspace or in the various Salesforce clouds is more or less, the stuff you've been using for years and a very familiar with Don't worry, new stuff is coming and it's going to make sure your competitive advantage is still there and between them. It's making sure that nobody can really put the hand up and say We're doing this and nobody else's everybody's doing it. So it's kind of almost a protecting your core revenue for those big suites

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yeah, and I won't mention their name, but one of the big offenders right? I had a briefing and I was on it a few weeks back now. And I think these CTO hates me at this point, because they were basically telling me, Oh, you're never gonna believe this, we're we're announcing an integration with GPT and we're bringing AI to our product and I was just completely totally on the world, right? But two reasons one everybody else is doing that anyway. So I I you could I could have guessed. That was coming. That's not a big sprite but the second thing was and you touched on it earlier is like well yeah that's cool and all but

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  I'm not convinced that the really massive large language models are. As valuable as for the enterprise by it, as people think I really don't, I think there's a an emerging and as a future market for smaller more specific AI that meets very specific needs and Just at the moment, they're getting lost in the noise.

Matt Mullen: Well, I think large large general models are good for large, general problems, so fragments take something like grammarly,…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe:  Exactly.

Matt Mullen: which I know that you are, you're a fan of where you are dealing with something, which covers all writing in English. That's where you need a very large set of information, but it's a very wide problem. If you're saying, Hey, I work in a specific sector. Well, straight away, you can throw away 99% of everything that's in the lmm because there's no longer relevant to this point, however, to…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Yeah.

Matt Mullen: then build that back up to the point where it's large, as is a significant investment. So, you know, it's not a surprise that you and I and and everybody believes actually down the line.


Matt Mullen: The main specific lmms are likely to be the ones, which are because that, which meet that AI usefulness coach quotient more. However, they require significant investments, not just to stand them up, but to continue to, to go through all the governance of the information in there that's required.

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: Exactly.

Matt Mullen: And you know, I I know we're back in talking about governance again like people today, but you know, if you're doing something that's safe for For medicine reticular type of medicine. That's not static. That's constantly in a state of flux and…

Alan Pelz-Sharpe: oh, very

Matt Mullen: if we're using something diagnostically, you need to make sure that you're using the latest diagnostic information with the right citations with the right document review process of stuff that

Meeting ended after 00:32:50 👋